hmm teen pregnancy is pretty vague a term, so i assume you're narrowing it down to pre-marital sex?
i feel males should take the blame because they're the ones who doesn't know how to control their desires whilst in the midst of having sex with his partner.
perhaps the male should not take the larger proportion of the blame if the girl was willing to give 'everything' to him. but what if it happens that the guy forces the girl to have sex with her, and then the girl gets pregnant? there's no solid proof that the girl actually gets forced, because the guy whom the girl had forced sex with is someone the girl knows. unless the girl is under sixteen, the guy would have to take the blame, even if the girl is the willing partner.
Female and male should share equal responsiblity. A male and a female is a human being. So both of them will have temptation to have sex with each other.
It doesnt matter which sex is pressured. Both have the right to say 'no'.Right now, the gender is not the matter. What matter is how they were educated about 'teen pregnancy'.
i disagree with zuuuuskingirl with what she said abt male not being able to control their desires whilst in the midst of having sex with the girl.
WHILST?
in the first place,if they really wanted to avoid teen pregnancy(and i guess my grpmates and i shall narrow it down to premarital sex resulting in teen pregnancy)abstinence should be the solution.
Not whipping out a condom whilst having sex. it might very well be too late by then.because when they are feeling the 'highness' during sex,they would probably abandon all sense to focus on their enjoyment.
Eventually,it boils down to an individual's moral values,common sense and ability to resist temptation.if u put 2 extremely randy people tgt they might end up having sex and no particular person could be blamed then.
If it is a teen couple,it would then involve mutual trust and respect bn them.They would also have to think maturely before they make any decision to have sex.
In other words,i am on the fence for this issue.Because it varies from situation to situation.
but no worries. i shall crack my brain for more pts to support my stand for this issue.
hello everyone!! i don't agree that male should take the larger proportion of the blame in teen pregnancies.
having sex is a two way thing.You can't force a person to have sex with you, if not,thats rape.It is based on your own decision,you agree to have sex,then prepare to bear the consequences.
Since both parties agree to have sex,both parties should take up the consequences together.Share the burden,share the responsibility.Both can't control their desires and urge,then bear the consequences together.
ya i do agree with charismata to some extent that having sex invloves 2 willing parties. but sometimes there are cases where the boyfriend threaten or force his girlfriend to have sex, if not he will leave her but the female does want the break up. that's why she succumb to his demands. so yah, sometimes the male do play a bigger role of the blame for teen pregnancies.
what if the girl is pinned down by her boyfriend and being forced into having sex, then she gets pregnant? the male shouldn't take the larger proportion of the blame too? well yea, the girl is to be blame also for getting herself into THAT situation, eg. revealing clothes, yadda3. but what if, the girl is those decent types, and the boyfriend is some kind of horny kid who goes around wanting to have sex, did the girl ask for it?
what i meant by the guy not being able to control, is actually ejaculation. hahahahahaha ok. it's easy to say but action speaks louder than words. but the male himself should have this initiative such that should he ever release semen inside, he could have told the girl what he just did and the girl should do what she should to prevent getting pregnant, like erm, eating pineapples? (since it's too late to prevent herself from getting pregnant)
abstinence is the solution. yes. but question mark lies in whether males should take the larger proportion of the blame. that's after sex had taken place. so abstinence is more or less out of the context now.
Shikin's group -- consider this. It goes beyond doubt that both have to take the blame.
the interesting word here is "LARGER".
COnsider a bank robbery. The mastermind would probably receive a heavier sentence. The driver in the get-away car who was not in the bank would probably get the lightest sentence.
Still, there is no denying that all those involved in the robbery must be punished.
if that girl is decent, able to think and see clearly, she would have noticed that her boyfriend is those "horny" types as zuuuuskingirl has put it, and stop any further advances btw them. if a girl really does NOT want to have sex with the guy, she will be clearheaded enough to push him away or make an excuse to leave.
unless like what miss chang mentioned: pressure, she feels that if her boyfriend wants sex and she does not give him, he'll leave her. now, this girl has to think clearly whether she's "living" for herself or him. if she's living for herself, she'll not give in to any demands. also, if her boyfriend really loves her, he'll respect her decision not to have sex until marriage, which is the consummate night.
if her boyfriend insist on having sex with her, ignoring her request NOT to, she should dump him immediately. she will find no happiness with a man who does not respect her decision and her body.
my above points shows that a girl is responsible for her own behaviour, aren't we all responsible for our own too? since it takes 2 to clap, i'd say the blame is 50-50. so the male should not take the larger proportion of the blame.
zuuuuskingirl, what has eating pineapples got to do with getting pregnant?
momokai, that's not fair to males. you feel that a man should be more responsible, meaning females can be less responsible for their own actions? wow, then i should be lucky i'm born female! everything just blame the male can already isn't it?
in a robbery case,the mastermind is definitely the one who will receive a heavier sentence as compared to his accomplice.because the mastermind is the one initiating it.
its the same for teen pregnancies.its often that the guys are the one initiating it.yes in any circumstances it takes two hands to clap.even if the female agree to it, the one initiating will have to take more blame.
i agree with momokai.guys out there, be a MAN.thus,male should take the LARGER proportion of the blame though females are responsible for it too.
the person who initiated does not mean that he/she completes the sexual process. initiating maybe just as simple as a suggestion. a suggestive whisper in the ear perhaps? if the male takes the first step, it will be up to the female if she want to take the second step or stop right there.
also, initiation does not lead to pregnancy. to avoid pregnancy is to either take protective measures or note which time of the month is it. girls who do not want to get pregnant will request for condom etc. ultimately, the womb is inside ourselves. if we don't want to get pregnant, it is our OWN responsiblity to protect ourselves.
SOME males would not be so kind as to remember to put on protective measures. if we don't remember to remind them, or exercise some safety measures ourselves, we cannot make the males take a larger proportion of the blame!
when a teenage is pregnant, and when the baby is unwanted. of course she'll feel that she's the victim and become a drama-mama, crying and not able to think clearly as she's all fustrated.
it is of human nature to point the finger at someone else when they are facing something of no-joke, like teenage pregnancy.
that is why when luckily we're not in that situation ourselves, we should stop and think about this issue. instead of worrying when this misfortune befalls us.
momokai said: If you're suddenly pregnant and don't know what to do, how to do, will you still talk about fairness?
momokai, if i practise what i preach, reminding myself or the guy to exercise protective measures. i would not be in your stated situation in the first place.
this topic is about whether male should take the larger proportion of the blame, not with guys wanting to bear the larger blame.
as far as i'm concern. if a guy wants to take the blame, i'll be more then glad to let him do so, since it's a relief not to blame myself. but this topic is not bout it.
and also, lost of virginity is of no link to this topic.
hehe. ignore the pineapple part. it's just a believe (i think), because pineapples are erm..(i dont know how to translate from malay) hahaha
males are unpredictable. the boyfriend who one might think is kind might sweet talk a girl out to have sex. however, i feel that girls should sense danger when a guy starts to 'ask for sex', and when the girl says no, he says he's kidding. IMO, the guy says that he is joking because he feels paiseh. but over time, the girl might finally succumb to the guys wants.
hmm,about the lost of virginity, i feel that girls would blame the guy because after all, her self-dignity has been lost. but then, no point blaming the guy for breaking her virginity because it all already happened. she have to live with it no matter what. but what if she gets pregnant? the girl is lucky enough if the guy wants to bear the larger proportion of the blame, i repeat, LUCKY. what if the guy accuses her of having sex with other guys and then he gets away scot free? obviously unfair for the girl.
oh yea, (slacker club) is right. what does blame equates to? footing the abortion bill? or keep his child and be a young parent?
hahaha (Momokai) can get pregnant. WOW. hahahaha just kidding.
I agree with cuiling and wanting! because they are my grpmates!
haha. but that aside. having read thru all the arguments, i disagree that male should take the larger proportion of the blame. if we have to get abit technical here,eventually it is the sperm frm the male and the egg frm the female that creates the baby.it is not as if the sperm forces its way in thru the egg.The egg is already there waiting to be fertilised. In other words,once the sex is done,no particular person can be blamed.and the female,however pressured she might have felt by her boyfriend to have sex or obliged to do so because of their supposed 'love', has to take the same proportion of blame as the male if their sexual encounter results in a pregnancy.
We females have to use our brains too,not just think using our hearts. Anyway(and this is out of topic i know)they are not making love if it is out of obligation. So females should not be fooled by that.
How do we define and divide the blame anyway? The female has to bear with 9 mths of pregnancy(and it is nt a cinch i believe) and the excruciating pain of giving birth. and the male is usually expected to provide the money. and it does take quite alot of money to raise a baby. so i would imagine it would eat quite a large portion of his income.(and this assuming that he is a teen so he prolly would have to quit sch to work or study and work at the same time). This means that both the male and female wouldn't be free to pursue whatever dreams they might have.
Isn't that almost equal then? And the part where the female has to cope with the pregnancy cant be helped.because we're made biologically that way.
Finally i conclude that i am arguing in the context of consensual sex.not rape or anything similar to rape.
i'm a gal here n as much as i wanna b on the gals' side.. i tink gals shud take the blame as well.. gals out there.. we shud seriously take control of ourselves. if we were that ''discipline'' and say NO to males..nothing would have happened.. (not toking abt rape cases here whereby the teenage gal gets pregnant..that we must n definitely blame the argh guys)..i guess gals are equally curious as guys especially with the exposure u get from intimate scenes u watch on tv..but if the gal is responsible and rational.. maybe things would be better??
momokai, do you mean that IF you were the one who made your girlfriend pregnant you'll feel guilty and take the larger blame? well if it is, then i'll say you're quite a rare species, because most guys would not feel guilty, or even be responsible for the baby.
dun feel sorry la. nothing what. just e-learning debating. its good to hear from other classes too! (:
I interpret the bank robbery scenario in this manner, it doesnt matter if the accomplices agrees or not to the idea of robbing a bank, and therefore resulted in the bank robbery. It is more importantly who gave the great idea and convinced his accomplices to rob the bank.
In this case we have to relate it as to who initiates havin sex then. We cannot escape from the fact that either gender can initiate it, or both at the same time. But based on statistics, male being the more dominant gender tend to initiate it, while the submssive female will just go along with it.
Therefore if, initiate = larger blame, male = larger blame. That is by analysing it using the "math" way.
Another scenario perhaps may clear things up:
Kid A suggested playing soccer in the classroom, Kid B reckons its a great idea and went along with it. Kid B was unable to control the ball and it broke the windows. Who's fault? Can we blame Kid B for being lousy in soccer?
Definetely not, Kid A should take larger responsibility since he shouldnt suggested it in the first place.
Also, if Kid A decides to play soccer, then he must understand he is taking certain risks, and should anything happen blame it on his poor decision making skills or not taking sufficient precautions.
Assuming the teacher says that whoever breaks the windows is responsible. Shouldnt be Kid A be guilty if Kid B gets caning while he gets only a warning? Hadnt Kid A brought trouble to Kid B, even though Kid B decides it's partially his fault to?
I can understand what momokai is tryin to get at. It's no longer be responsible for your own actions, its more about not letting the female further suffer by letting her take the blame, even if she initiates it in the first place.
In anyway I agree to the statment.
(I dont exactly agree, honestly, I just like going against the current ^^ no offense )
I do not agree that male should take the larger proportion of the blame in teen pregnacies. It takes both party to agree. Though there is exception cases such as rape, bf forcing/request from the girl.. etc.
31 Comments:
hmmm...
I'll wait for the other girls to rebut here. Am sure they have lots to say wei cong! :)
two words ; wear condom.
hmm teen pregnancy is pretty vague a term, so i assume you're narrowing it down to pre-marital sex?
i feel males should take the blame because they're the ones who doesn't know how to control their desires whilst in the midst of having sex with his partner.
perhaps the male should not take the larger proportion of the blame if the girl was willing to give 'everything' to him. but what if it happens that the guy forces the girl to have sex with her, and then the girl gets pregnant? there's no solid proof that the girl actually gets forced, because the guy whom the girl had forced sex with is someone the girl knows. unless the girl is under sixteen, the guy would have to take the blame, even if the girl is the willing partner.
hmm. guess that's it.
Think this group (shikin's?) could look at the different stages which lead to pregnancy.
1. The initiation
-- who usually initiates sex? m?f?both?
2. the pressure
-- who feels the pressure to have sex? m?f? both?
3. contraception
-- who has to take the responsibility?
Female and male should share equal responsiblity. A male and a female is a human being. So both of them will have temptation to have sex with each other.
It doesnt matter which sex is pressured. Both have the right to say 'no'.Right now, the gender is not the matter. What matter is how they were educated about 'teen pregnancy'.
i disagree with zuuuuskingirl with what she said abt male not being able to control their desires whilst in the midst of having sex with the girl.
WHILST?
in the first place,if they really wanted to avoid teen pregnancy(and i guess my grpmates and i shall narrow it down to premarital sex resulting in teen pregnancy)abstinence should be the solution.
Not whipping out a condom whilst having sex.
it might very well be too late by then.because when they are feeling the 'highness' during sex,they would probably abandon all sense to focus on their enjoyment.
Eventually,it boils down to an individual's moral values,common sense and ability to resist temptation.if u put 2 extremely randy people tgt they might end up having sex and no particular person could be blamed then.
If it is a teen couple,it would then involve mutual trust and respect bn them.They would also have to think maturely before they make any decision to have sex.
In other words,i am on the fence for this issue.Because it varies from situation to situation.
but no worries.
i shall crack my brain for more pts to support my stand for this issue.
=)
hello everyone!!
i don't agree that male should take the larger proportion of the blame in teen pregnancies.
having sex is a two way thing.You can't force a person to have sex with you, if not,thats rape.It is based on your own decision,you agree to have sex,then prepare to bear the consequences.
Since both parties agree to have sex,both parties should take up the consequences together.Share the burden,share the responsibility.Both can't control their desires and urge,then bear the consequences together.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
ya i do agree with charismata to some extent that having sex invloves 2 willing parties. but sometimes there are cases where the boyfriend threaten or force his girlfriend to have sex, if not he will leave her but the female does want the break up. that's why she succumb to his demands. so yah, sometimes the male do play a bigger role of the blame for teen pregnancies.
i agree with rubby.
what if the girl is pinned down by her boyfriend and being forced into having sex, then she gets pregnant? the male shouldn't take the larger proportion of the blame too? well yea, the girl is to be blame also for getting herself into THAT situation, eg. revealing clothes, yadda3. but what if, the girl is those decent types, and the boyfriend is some kind of horny kid who goes around wanting to have sex, did the girl ask for it?
what i meant by the guy not being able to control, is actually ejaculation. hahahahahaha ok. it's easy to say but action speaks louder than words. but the male himself should have this initiative such that should he ever release semen inside, he could have told the girl what he just did and the girl should do what she should to prevent getting pregnant, like erm, eating pineapples? (since it's too late to prevent herself from getting pregnant)
abstinence is the solution. yes. but question mark lies in whether males should take the larger proportion of the blame. that's after sex had taken place. so abstinence is more or less out of the context now.
Not quite getting zul's point here.
Summarise and repeat?
Shikin's group -- consider this.
It goes beyond doubt that both have to take the blame.
the interesting word here is "LARGER".
COnsider a bank robbery. The mastermind would probably receive a heavier sentence. The driver in the get-away car who was not in the bank would probably get the lightest sentence.
Still, there is no denying that all those involved in the robbery must be punished.
Anyone has any views here?
if that girl is decent, able to think and see clearly, she would have noticed that her boyfriend is those "horny" types as zuuuuskingirl has put it, and stop any further advances btw them. if a girl really does NOT want to have sex with the guy, she will be clearheaded enough to push him away or make an excuse to leave.
unless like what miss chang mentioned: pressure, she feels that if her boyfriend wants sex and she does not give him, he'll leave her. now, this girl has to think clearly whether she's "living" for herself or him. if she's living for herself, she'll not give in to any demands. also, if her boyfriend really loves her, he'll respect her decision not to have sex until marriage, which is the consummate night.
if her boyfriend insist on having sex with her, ignoring her request NOT to, she should dump him immediately. she will find no happiness with a man who does not respect her decision and her body.
my above points shows that a girl is responsible for her own behaviour, aren't we all responsible for our own too? since it takes 2 to clap, i'd say the blame is 50-50. so the male should not take the larger proportion of the blame.
zuuuuskingirl, what has eating pineapples got to do with getting pregnant?
momokai, that's not fair to males. you feel that a man should be more responsible, meaning females can be less responsible for their own actions? wow, then i should be lucky i'm born female! everything just blame the male can already isn't it?
in a robbery case,the mastermind is definitely the one who will receive a heavier sentence as compared to his accomplice.because the mastermind is the one initiating it.
its the same for teen pregnancies.its often that the guys are the one initiating it.yes in any circumstances it takes two hands to clap.even if the female agree to it, the one initiating will have to take more blame.
i agree with momokai.guys out there, be a MAN.thus,male should take the LARGER proportion of the blame though females are responsible for it too.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
the person who initiated does not mean that he/she completes the sexual process. initiating maybe just as simple as a suggestion. a suggestive whisper in the ear perhaps? if the male takes the first step, it will be up to the female if she want to take the second step or stop right there.
also, initiation does not lead to pregnancy. to avoid pregnancy is to either take protective measures or note which time of the month is it. girls who do not want to get pregnant will request for condom etc. ultimately, the womb is inside ourselves. if we don't want to get pregnant, it is our OWN responsiblity to protect ourselves.
SOME males would not be so kind as to remember to put on protective measures. if we don't remember to remind them, or exercise some safety measures ourselves, we cannot make the males take a larger proportion of the blame!
when a teenage is pregnant, and when the baby is unwanted. of course she'll feel that she's the victim and become a drama-mama, crying and not able to think clearly as she's all fustrated.
it is of human nature to point the finger at someone else when they are facing something of no-joke, like teenage pregnancy.
that is why when luckily we're not in that situation ourselves, we should stop and think about this issue. instead of worrying when this misfortune befalls us.
momokai said: If you're suddenly pregnant and don't know what to do, how to do, will you still talk about fairness?
momokai, if i practise what i preach, reminding myself or the guy to exercise protective measures. i would not be in your stated situation in the first place.
this topic is about whether male should take the larger proportion of the blame, not with guys wanting to bear the larger blame.
as far as i'm concern. if a guy wants to take the blame, i'll be more then glad to let him do so, since it's a relief not to blame myself. but this topic is not bout it.
and also, lost of virginity is of no link to this topic.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
one question
what does blame = to?
hey who's slacker club?
blame = person who should rightfully take responsibility, to hold responsiblity.
hehe. ignore the pineapple part. it's just a believe (i think), because pineapples are erm..(i dont know how to translate from malay) hahaha
males are unpredictable. the boyfriend who one might think is kind might sweet talk a girl out to have sex. however, i feel that girls should sense danger when a guy starts to 'ask for sex', and when the girl says no, he says he's kidding. IMO, the guy says that he is joking because he feels paiseh. but over time, the girl might finally succumb to the guys wants.
hmm,about the lost of virginity, i feel that girls would blame the guy because after all, her self-dignity has been lost. but then, no point blaming the guy for breaking her virginity because it all already happened. she have to live with it no matter what. but what if she gets pregnant? the girl is lucky enough if the guy wants to bear the larger proportion of the blame, i repeat, LUCKY. what if the guy accuses her of having sex with other guys and then he gets away scot free? obviously unfair for the girl.
oh yea, (slacker club) is right. what does blame equates to? footing the abortion bill? or keep his child and be a young parent?
hahaha (Momokai) can get pregnant. WOW. hahahaha just kidding.
I agree with cuiling and wanting!
because they are my grpmates!
haha.
but that aside.
having read thru all the arguments,
i disagree that male should take the larger proportion of the blame.
if we have to get abit technical here,eventually it is the sperm frm the male and the egg frm the female that creates the baby.it is not as if the sperm forces its way in thru the egg.The egg is already there waiting to be fertilised.
In other words,once the sex is done,no particular person can be blamed.and the female,however pressured she might have felt by her boyfriend to have sex or obliged to do so because of their supposed 'love', has to take the same proportion of blame as the male if their sexual encounter results in a pregnancy.
We females have to use our brains too,not just think using our hearts.
Anyway(and this is out of topic i know)they are not making love if it is out of obligation.
So females should not be fooled by that.
How do we define and divide the blame anyway?
The female has to bear with 9 mths of pregnancy(and it is nt a cinch i believe) and the excruciating pain of giving birth.
and the male is usually expected to provide the money.
and it does take quite alot of money to raise a baby.
so i would imagine it would eat quite a large portion of his income.(and this assuming that he is a teen so he prolly would have to quit sch to work or study and work at the same time).
This means that both the male and female wouldn't be free to pursue whatever dreams they might have.
Isn't that almost equal then?
And the part where the female has to cope with the pregnancy cant be helped.because we're made biologically that way.
Finally i conclude that i am arguing in the context of consensual sex.not rape or anything similar to rape.
i'm a gal here n as much as i wanna b on the gals' side.. i tink gals shud take the blame as well.. gals out there.. we shud seriously take control of ourselves. if we were that ''discipline'' and say NO to males..nothing would have happened.. (not toking abt rape cases here whereby the teenage gal gets pregnant..that we must n definitely blame the argh guys)..i guess gals are equally curious as guys especially with the exposure u get from intimate scenes u watch on tv..but if the gal is responsible and rational.. maybe things would be better??
momokai, do you mean that IF you were the one who made your girlfriend pregnant you'll feel guilty and take the larger blame? well if it is, then i'll say you're quite a rare species, because most guys would not feel guilty, or even be responsible for the baby.
dun feel sorry la. nothing what. just e-learning debating. its good to hear from other classes too! (:
ms chang is lost within all the comments here...
happily lost.
ok. let me try to get a sense of this.
I believe shikin's group has tried to do that already.
1. define the situation (and eliminate confusion )
I think Shikin has done that
a) NOT talking about the loss of virginity
b) NOT talking about rape; only consensual sex
c) NOT blaming just ONE party
2. if you place the blame EQUALLY, then you have to justify that the WRONG-DOING is equitable.
Remember the bank robbery?
Yes, like Cuiling mentioned, no hard feelings at all.
As long as you don't start hurling vulgarities and unreasanle statements, everything's fine! :)
And Alan, I was just wondering yesterday when you would actually reveal that you are a guy. :)
I interpret the bank robbery scenario in this manner, it doesnt matter if the accomplices agrees or not to the idea of robbing a bank, and therefore resulted in the bank robbery. It is more importantly who gave the great idea and convinced his accomplices to rob the bank.
In this case we have to relate it as to who initiates havin sex then. We cannot escape from the fact that either gender can initiate it, or both at the same time. But based on statistics, male being the more dominant gender tend to initiate it, while the submssive female will just go along with it.
Therefore if, initiate = larger blame, male = larger blame. That is by analysing it using the "math" way.
Another scenario perhaps may clear things up:
Kid A suggested playing soccer in the classroom, Kid B reckons its a great idea and went along with it. Kid B was unable to control the ball and it broke the windows. Who's fault? Can we blame Kid B for being lousy in soccer?
Definetely not, Kid A should take larger responsibility since he shouldnt suggested it in the first place.
Also, if Kid A decides to play soccer, then he must understand he is taking certain risks, and should anything happen blame it on his poor decision making skills or not taking sufficient precautions.
Assuming the teacher says that whoever breaks the windows is responsible.
Shouldnt be Kid A be guilty if Kid B gets caning while he gets only a warning? Hadnt Kid A brought trouble to Kid B, even though Kid B decides it's partially his fault to?
I can understand what momokai is tryin to get at. It's no longer be responsible for your own actions, its more about not letting the female further suffer by letting her take the blame, even if she initiates it in the first place.
In anyway I agree to the statment.
(I dont exactly agree, honestly, I just like going against the current ^^ no offense )
Kenneth
Good job in trying to come up with another analogy!
Shikin's group.
I think you need very little guidance from me.
you girls seem to have a very clear idea of how to contruct your arguments.
Let me know if you need help.
I do not agree that male should take the larger proportion of the blame in teen pregnacies. It takes both party to agree. Though there is exception cases such as rape, bf forcing/request from the girl.. etc.
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